From the Hiring Side of the Table

Declining academic standards and poor preparation are what’s leaving many graduates unemployable.

I read Jared Gould’s recent lament, “What’s Feeding the ‘Graduate Unemployment Crisis’?” and his follow-up about his youngest brother, “Against My Advice, My Brother Is Going to College.”

Let me provide a different view of new graduate employment issues from my 30+ years of experience in the corporate world, which included hiring and developing many new graduates.

For many years, companies have noticed a decline in the quality of college graduates. My colleagues and I began to notice a decline in the quality of BS grads, as measured by GPA—usually on a 4-point scale—around the early 1990s. In choosing among a large selection of resumes, we had used 3.0 as the minimum indicator of the presence of intelligent life until we began to realize that we needed to limit selection to 3.2 minimum, eventually rising to 3.4. Today, I might be suspicious of a 4.0.

Many interviewees were surprised to find that I required what is known as a “whiteboard” Q&A during one-on-one interviews, as did most of my colleagues. Whiteboard sessions work well in chemistry discussions. The grads who did well on the whiteboard generally got offers; those who struggled did not. Those who had real research experience, such as working for a professor during the summer or during the academic year—I did both as an undergrad—generally did well; it was a differentiator. There is no substitute for real lab experience.

It amazed us how often new grad interviewees had no clue about our company, its business, or its technology. My preparation for my first interview, while nearing the end of my postdoctoral work, was very different and was something I knew I had to do to be properly prepared and demonstrate my interest in the opportunity. I spent many hours in the library studying the company’s patents. I went to the university business school and asked for any information they could provide on the company. The business school was wonderfully helpful. In fact, I think they were pleased that I thought of coming to them. This was back in 1980, so I did not have the benefit of the internet for easy access to technical and business information, as graduates have had for decades since. When I was asked during the interview process how my background and experience might help the company, I had a good answer. I am certain my knowledge of the company’s technology and business, along with my technical breadth, helped, as I received and accepted an offer. I was not the only candidate interviewed. My point here? Fortune favors the prepared mind. There is no substitute for the hard work of preparation and, of course, the knowledge that a parchment once signified but often no longer does. There is also no substitute for an appropriate attitude, work ethic, and initiative. After all, it was I who needed to convince my interviewers because they had the opportunity. Apparently, this approach to interviewing is not as obvious as it should be.

The job market has always been competitive. A year after I was hired, the job market for new grads in chemistry and chemical engineering tanked and remained that way for several years. Inflation was well into double digits back then, not the three to four percent people worry about today, and companies were very reluctant to expand headcount. Science and engineering periodically experience boom-and-bust cycles in the job market. Periods of low oil prices and small refining margins do not produce a good hiring environment in the energy and chemical industries. Marketplace disruption always affects employment somehow. Today, companies are well aware that a change in our government could lead us back down the green energy “transition” rabbit hole, recognized as a guaranteed economic loser by all but the ignorant, ideologically captured, or financially parasitic. Such uncertainty is never good for investment in people, and the government magnifies uncertainty since everyone understands that a single election can change everything. Businesses deal with uncertainty by conserving resources. Those that must invest heavily in uncertain times (e.g., Big Tech, which views investment in artificial intelligence (AI) as existential) must economize elsewhere.

As for layoffs, no company lays off significant numbers of employees without good reason. Corporate leadership must consider the business’s long-term health and growth prospects. Failing in this responsibility puts all employees at risk, as well as the capital of investors, including defined benefit pension funds—mostly public sector—and defined contribution plans such as 401(k)s—mostly private sector—that help provide a decent retirement for seniors. Companies that hire too freely in good times or place too large a bet on a particular strategy have limited flexibility to adjust to difficult or uncertain times. We live in very uncertain times.

Gould says he had been looking at reports about the job market for new grads. Perhaps he is familiar with complaints from the corporate world about the attitude of many new grad interviewees and new hires. The word “entitled” is a common descriptor. “Snowflake” was popular not long ago and remains germane. Couple this to rampant grade inflation and the endless list of degree programs best described as fake scholarship and intellectual nonsense that most universities are offering, and you get many new grads who have essentially nothing of value to offer to a business. Let’s admit it: a degree in the liberal arts or social sciences does not signify what it once did—working familiarity with logic and ability to reason based on facts and to think critically—and, based on what I see, may never again. Companies are becoming very selective, and, frankly, they not only can be but cannot afford not to be. What colleges and universities need to provide is not “the right number of graduates” but the “right kind of graduates.” Clearly, they are not doing this at the moment, although it should be obvious that this is job one. With the quality of K-12 education continuing to drop and an “A” meaning little, I see little prospect for change in the near term. The marketplace has spoken loudly. I see little evidence that universities are listening.  

Colleges and universities are customers of K-12 output as well as suppliers to the broader economy. Companies are customers of both K-12 and colleges and universities. Until recently, suppliers have taken their customers for granted. Some parts of both K-12 and university systems have expressed outrage that customers are unhappy with the product. Anyone with experience serving customers in the private sector will tell you that suppliers who blame the customer do not fare well in a competitive marketplace because the customer always has options: don’t buy or find better suppliers. Apparently, customers are not buying as freely today. And, emphasis on trades and programs requiring certification demonstrates that customers are finding what they want from other suppliers. Traditional suppliers had better pay attention. My response: Welcome to the real world. Deal with it.  

Now, what does “deal with it” mean? There are two parts to this challenge: (1) Fix K-12 and universities, and (2) figure out what we are going to do with a very substantial cohort of young people with either K-12 or K-12 plus a four-year degree that the job market sees as of little value.

I won’t say much about #1 since the National Association of Scholars (NAS) is doing some of the heavy lifting here, which is why I am a member. Equally worth mentioning are charter schools, good trade schools, and related organizations that provide effective alternatives to “traditional” education. It would be great if organizations such as NAS, major think tanks, and corporate leaders would spend more time talking to young people, preferably those just entering high school and university, about what the real world expects when recruiting young talent. Obviously, they are not getting such advice during their education or at home. It might help them think harder about the next step in their preparation for the real world of work. Absolutely nobody knows where the AI revolution will take us, but young people need to understand that there will be no substitute for knowledge, skills, and initiative coupled with a strong work ethic. Discovering this at graduation will be too late for many.

As for #2, we need a national discussion about what we are going to do with the millions of young people who came through K-12 or K-12 plus a four-year degree, with little of value to show for the experience. Perhaps Gould knows of someone talking about it, but I hear nothing, particularly about what to do about debt-laden young people with a degree in bogus scholarship who are angry and resentful about their lack of career prospects. They are part of the Mamdani/socialist voting bloc and, apparently, are not having children and are not planning to do so—take a good look at NYC, particularly Manhattan, demographics, and the persistent decrease in public school student numbers while the dog population grows. Perhaps you can ask what we are going to do to deal with this large and growing population. It’s a problem screaming for a solution, and at the moment, socialism is winning their hearts and minds.

  1. The reality is that students do not like to take tough courses that may cause them to get a grade that drops their GPAs, yet these are typically the courses they need to get job skills. Administrators do not like to see students get flunked out after working so hard to recruit them. It doesn’t help that many students are ill-prepared in the K-12 system. There is a lot of pressure on faculty to offer watered-down courses and majors to make them both happy. The long run cost is that neither the students nor their employers are satisfied with the outcome. How to change the perverse incentives of this system?

    1. The problem is that employers only look at the GPA and not the underlying courses. Hence the incentive to take the easiest courses

  2. Maybe Dr. Humphries is right, corporate America is the customer — but what he’s missing is that it should be the customer who pays the bill.

    Maybe what Dr. Humphrey is actually saying is that she corporate America alone that pays for higher education.

    Imagine the hypothetical of where all of higher education is funded by a tax on employers.

    Keeping this simple because I am an education major (and have trouble counting above 12), let’s presume that the cost of a baccalaureate degree is $30,000, and that an employee will work for 30 years before retiring.

    Let’s presume that a master’s degree cost $60,000 ($30,000 plus $30,000) and that a doctorate costs $90,000 ($30,000 plus $30,000 plus $30,000). It’s actually more but I’m keeping them as simple here — and again the graduate will work for 30 years before retiring.

    So we impose an employer tax of $1000 for every employee who has a baccalaureate degree, $2000 for every employee with a master’s degree, and $3000 for every employee with a doctorate — the tax being based on the highest degree the employee has.

    To avoid disrupting the labor market, this would not apply to employees whose degree(s) were awarded before 2030.

    This would do three things. First, it would get employers to seriously reconsider which jobs really should require a college degree, as they will now be paying an extra $12,000 a year for every new hire that has one.

    Second, the students who don’t belong in college lively, wouldn’t be there anymore because this would apply to blue college jobs as well and parents would tell their children not to go to college.

    Third, as employers are now paying $12,000, $24,000, or $36,000 for the college educated employees they hire, employees would have legitimate demands on academia to clean up its act. It’s one thing for Dr. Humphries to take his “sucks to be you” attitude towards students stuck with the bill for useless degrees, it would be something else entirely if his company was having to pay it.

    It all comes down to who is the customer, and who is the beneficiary of the education. Our current system is based upon the belief that is the student who is both a customer and the beneficiary of the education he receives.

    Perhaps Dr. Humphries is right, that it’s the employer who is the customer, that it is the employer who benefits from being able to hire employees who don’t have to be trained because they already know the things that the employer needs them to know. Why shouldn’t the employer be the one who pays for this?

  3. ”… what to do about debt-laden young people with a degree in bogus scholarship who are angry and resentful about their lack of career prospects.”

    They have every right to be angry and resentful!

    For the past 50 years, society has told them that if they jump through the hoops of higher education, they will be rewarded with career prospects. So they jumped through these hoops, paying an increasing obscene amount of money to be treated in an increasingly fascist manner. It’s not that I openly compare UMass Amherst to the Soviet Union as much as what I’d learned about the Soviet Union in the 80s was incredibly helpful to me at UMass Amherst in the 90s and 00s.

    Five times I was told “get this degree and it will get you a job” — five times I earned the degree, only to find that the job wasn’t there. I look at undergrads today and it’s even worse. They pay a truly obscene amount of money and tolerate psychological abuse that I never would have tolerated to earn a bachelor degree that essentially isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. We have lemon laws for automobiles, we need them for college degrees.

    And what infuriates me more is when institutions like UMass advertise the half dozen graduates who were fantastically successful while ignoring the tens of thousands who weren’t. The state lottery has to tell you your mathematical odds of winning, is it too much to ask a state university to do likewise?

    And the author blames the job applicants for what they don’t know WITHOUT EVER BLAMING THE COLLEGES FROM NOT TEACHING IT TO THEM!!!

    I must admit that I’ve never even heard of a “whiteboard” Q&A, although I also don’t have a background in the sciences. If I did, and UMass hadn’t prepared me for that, it’d be yet one more way that UMass had cheated me out of the education I paid for.

    The author somehow thinks that he’s the “customer” of higher education. Nothing could be further from the truth — the STUDENT is the customer, and he merely is the neutral observer of what the customer did not get for his/her/its time & money. After all, who paid for — and is still paying for — the education?

    ”They are part of the Mamdani/socialist voting bloc and, apparently, are not having children and are not planning to do so…It’s a problem screaming for a solution, and at the moment, socialism is winning their hearts and minds.

    What people fail to understand is that they’ve already tried capitalism. They were told to invest in an education, and that both the opportunity cost and the financial cost would serve them as intellectual capital in the employment market.

    Finding out that they were lied to — and they were — makes them think that capitalism itself is a lie. Socialism offers them tangible, immediate rewards while capitalism is a vague promise, along the lines of promises which have already been broken.

    They’re not having children because they wisely know they can’t afford to, this actually is a rational and intelligent choice on their part. It’s a problem, but blaming them for it is bullbleep — didn’t Calvin Coolidge advise one to live within one’s means?

    One needs to remember that their dreams of future success have been destroyed.

    One needs to understand that they no longer have a concept of delayed gratification because they delayed and were not gratified — they’ve learned to take what they can get now because they don’t believe that there will be more later.

    Hence the consequences of rent control are a clear immediate benefit now, as opposed to a hypothetical future cost based upon an economic system that you no longer trust — which would you rationally expect them to vote for?

    Same thing with a “Millionaire’s tax.” You’re not a millionaire, you don’t honestly expect to ever be one, and this is immediate benefit for services you want as opposed to hypothetical future cost based upon the economic system that you no longer trust. It’s actually worse because it’s impossible to prove these hypothetical future costs — did the millionaire move from Massachusetts to Florida because he was charged an extra 4% in-state income tax, or because he’s now 80 years old and Florida doesn’t get 5 feet of snow…

    Heaven help me, but given a choice between Mandani and Mitt Romney, I’d vote for Mandaini — and I know a lot more about the former Soviet Union then most people do. I also know a bit about the German Weimar Republic — I’d be worried about the concept of “decent retirements for seniors” even without the demographic issues….

    1. Oh please. These students know full well they’re not learning anything. (If you can’t read, you don’t need to have someone tell you that). These kids are not the innocent victims you claim them to be. The colleges are merely providing a service people are willing to pay for.

      1. In reality even the undereducated students span a huge range. In remedial courses — acknowledged to be that or not — some of the students are lazy dopes who manage to get flushed away. While others start way behind, but are inspiring for their sterling efforts and their success.

      2. No Patti — let me give you a real example that I watched from the sidelines about 20 years ago at UMass Amherst.

        Pascal and C are both computer programming languages. I only got as far as Fortran but as I understand it, C is considered superior because it interfaces with Unix better and employers needed people who were fluent in C.

        Several large Massachusetts employers needed CS graduates,who knew C — for whatever reason. However, the UMass computer science department insisted on still teaching Pascal and refused to teach C.

        The version I heard was that several large employers went to the governor and threatened to leave Massachusetts and to publicly state they were doing it because UM Amherst wasn’t teaching C — and it took THAT to get the professors to teach C.

        The students knew that that they weren’t learning what they needed to know (i.e. C) but they learned Pascal because it was what they had to do to get the degree they had to have. Students don’t get a choice as to what to learn and that’s why I don’t think it’s fair to blame them for not having been taught with the institution failed to teach them.

        As an undergrad, I was requiring to take a few classes that I’m not only could’ve taught, but would’ve done a better job teaching — Clearly I didn’t learn anything, but I had to take the class. It was required. And don’t get me going about the waste of time with social justice and diversity garbage I had to endure as a graduate student.

        And to get my CDL (heavy truck) license, I had to learn how to parallel park the truck — which no one would ever, EVER, do. Ever. But it’s on the test and hence I had to learn how to do it.

        Patti, the curriculum is set by the faculty, and hence the faculty are accountable for what it lacks. Not the students.

  4. “My colleagues and I began to notice a decline in the quality of BS grads, as measured by GPA…”

    As a researcher, if I consider a criteria unreliable, I don’t use it!

    Setting a higher cutoff is asinine — not only does it fail to give you reliable data, it serves to further exacerbate the a very problem complained about. In other words, instead of actually fixing the underlying problem, academia will simply inflate its grades above the current minimum cut off level.

    This is why I do not believe employers should have access to student GPAs — which they didn’t until about the 1940s. Before then, the college or university had to stand behind each and every one of its graduates — now it can say that some are better than others, good luck figuring out which.

    I know that the Griggs v. Duke Power decision ties the hands of employers, and that’s something that needs to be dealt with, but there must be some other objective criteria that shows the quality of applicants. And the other question I have is why are employers not willing to invest in producing the applicants they desire?

    Higher sophomores for summer jobs and then have your own people evaluate them. Sponsor high school science fairs and then keep track of the kids that you’re impressed with. If schools won’t do it, and most probably won’t, have your own science fair — a $5000 first prize is a lot of money for a high school kid, not so much for a large corporation.

    Higher Ed is difficult to influence, K-12 is not. Every one of your employees lives somewhere, and that somewhere has a local school community or school board. Do what the left has been doing for the past 50 years: run for school board! There are limits as to what a corporation can donate to a candidate, as well as what individuals can donate, and be careful to observe this, but $5000 is more than enough to win one of these down ballot elections.

    Japanese corporations think in terms of 100 years and 500 years from now. Investing in the local school boards will have a return — to the corporation — in terms of 5 to 15 years. And this is not merely speculative, the Soviet launch of Sputnik in 1957 led to engineers teaching PSSC physics in high schools like 1962 and a pipeline of young engineers going to NASA by 1966.

    And it wasn’t just NASA — the changes to American high schools between 1957 and 1962 led to lots of qualified STEM graduates with BS degrees starting in 1966. This contributed to the American dominance in fields ranging from petrochemicals to electronics and aerospace — this is historical fact.

    1. Wow, Dr. Ed, you are angry. I was expecting it. The education establishment has been and still is living in LaLa Land while neglecting its responsibility to its students. What I am telling you is, blaming the customer, which in my case is the corporation hiring, is a game for losers. The customer is always right. The way to rectify the problem is to provide what the customer needs. If he does not find the product acceptable, he goes elsewhere or does not buy. Do I feel badly that a student graduated with little to show for it? Yes. Will that affect my decision to hire? No. If you don’t like it, that’s not my problem.

      1. Ah, yes Humphreys, Dr Ed is really the Ed Establishment! I’m sure he will savor that.

      2. Three words: Privity of Contract.

        There are two distinctly different vendor/customer relationships that you are commingling — the student as the customer of the university, and the employer as the customer of the student. These are distinctly different relationships.

        Look at it this way — let’s say I’m delivering packages for Amazon. Amazon is my customer and Amazon expects me to have 10 drivers out in 10 working vehicles every day.

        And I am the customer of Charlie’s Chevy dealership from whom I bought 10 brand new delivery vans, all of which are lemons. I have it most five operational vans on any given day. And this is a problem.

        But Amazon is not a customer of Charlie’s Chevy — I am — and that is the point I’m trying to make about how the student (and his parents) is the customer of the university, not the corporate recruiter.

        The corporate recruiter can advocate for students (see above) but the university is not the corporate recruiter’s customer — there is no fiduciary relationship between the recruiter and the university.

        And the objective corporate recruiter does not much care which institution its employees come from as long as they are well qualified — no more than Amazon cares if it’s delivery vendors use Chevy vans or Ford vans.

  5. The author seems to compare his preparation as a postdoctoral to that of a bachelor candidate. Seems kind of unreasonable.

    Also — does he have the whiteboard treatment given without advance notice?

    Maybe we will “fix” universities and K-12 schools. Speaking of Chemistry, we are doing a good job of sending our top academic scientists abroad, see another related thread.

    I suspect there will be massive efforts to “fix” American business too.

    Better career preparation would be good. But of course, that will cost someone money.

    1. I think I indicated no such thing about BS candidates. As for the white board, students who cannot answer questions should not be granted a degree. Perhaps you have had little real world experience related to interviews in the tech world.

      1. Hah! If you only knew.

        Whoever you are, you don’t strike me as very professional.

        I think business is in at least as much trouble as academia and the students.

        Maybe everything will just come crashing down.

      2. I know what whiteboard is as a noun, I’m really wondering exactly what it means as a verb.

        That said, you are essentially making my argument that the GPA should be internal to the institution only — you’re stating that there should be expectations for any graduate, not just those above a certain GPA.

        And the reason I keep making an issue of this is that there’s a GPA tax for being to the right of Vladimir Lenin, I believe things have gotten to the point where it is now at least a full point.

  6. The writer mentions chemistry majors. I doubt that there is so much grade inflation that a 4.0 is suspect. 3.4 at good public universities are competitive for medical school.

    BTW does this writer have a bio?

    1. I considered GPAs to be meaningless at this point — there is way too much grading on the basis of political belief and pandering to the professor.

      Conversely, students who take challenging courses for the purpose of learning something a penalized in their GPAs.

      1. Dr. Ed, I know you have 5 degrees, if I remember correctly, and I don’t want you to tempt you to get a sixth. But really, at least contemplate enrolling in a premed program. If not at UMass, maybe Kansas or Ohio State or the like. I think you will find that the science courses, at least, have grading that is not “meaningless!” Oh, the cakewalk that is thermodynamics in freshman chemistry or physics! Maybe the 3.4 of old is the 3.7 of today. Or maybe not.

      2. Jonathan, I suggest you read what has been printed here and elsewhere about DEI in medical schools, etc.

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